Keeping a television series fresh and engaging after its first few seasons is always a difficult task. It often separates the classic TV shows from the also-rans. And it’s often even tougher to pull off for a network comedy or sitcom. In many ways, that’s why it’s a relief that the third season of “Abbot Elementary” may arguably be one of its best. A major reason for that has to be Janelle James‘ portrayal of the blunt and take-no-prisoners elementary school principal, Ava.
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One of the major storylines for season three found Janine (series creator and now two-time Emmy winner Quinta Brunson) taking a sabbatical from Abbott to work with the district in improving the schools overall. At the same time, Ava has spent her summer taking classes at Harvard and seems thrilled that Janine is out of her hair and no longer at Abbott full-time. Janelle, a two-time Emmy nominee for “Abbott” herself, thinks viewers may have misread the seemingly combative educator’s relationship.
“I think the slow rollout for everyone in this show has been Janine and Gregory’s relationship,” James explains. “For me, the slow rollout has been Ava and Janine’s friendship. And so especially late last season and into this season, Ava’s been complimenting her a little in the Ava way. She almost called her friend just recently, stuff like that. And so if anything, me thinking as Ava, I feel like she may be even relieved she’s leaving. Like, ‘I’m letting my guard down too much. If she’s at the district, I’ll still see her. I’ll still get to trade barbs and say mean things to her, but her being here is almost too close. We’re almost friends now. I can’t have that.’ So, that’s how I like to think of it. I don’t think she’s sad she’s leaving and I think she also kind of maybe feels like she’ll be back. Ava seems to know everyone better than they know themselves. “
Over the course of our conversation, Janelle gives her thoughts on whether Ava is really into Gregory (Tyler James Williams) or not, Ava’s unexpected friendship with Jacob (Chris Perfetti), how the show’s child actors really had no idea who guest star Bradley Cooper was, and much more.
Please note: This interview occurred before “Abbott Elementary” season 3, episode 10 was broadcast.
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The Playlist: Congratulations on season three.
Janelle James: Thank you.
So, as of today, we have not seen the entire season. I think there’s what, 15 episodes?
14.
14! So, in the last episode that just aired, Janine announced that she was leaving the school and she is taking a full-time job with the school district. Ava seemed overjoyed. Was that really how she feels or is there a little part of Ava that wants Janine to still have a foot in the door at Abbott?
I think the slow rollout for everyone in this show has been Janine and Gregory’s relationship. For me, the slow rollout has been Ava and Janine’s friendship. And so especially late last season and into this season, Ava’s been complimenting her a little in the Ava way. She almost called her friend just recently, stuff like that. And so if anything, me thinking as Ava, I feel like she may be even relieved she’s leaving. Like, “I’m letting my guard down too much. If she’s at the district, I’ll still see her. I’ll still get to trade barbs and say mean things to her, but her being here is almost too close. We’re almost friends now. I can’t have that.” So, that’s how I like to think of it. I don’t think she’s sad she’s leaving and I think she also kind of maybe feels like she’ll be back. Ava seems to know everyone better than they know themselves.
Out of all the other teachers at the school, who do you think drives Ava crazy the most?
Previously I would’ve said Jacob if we didn’t just find out that they watched “Saltburn” together so they hang out.
So they hang it out. And that’s not a short movie.
Yeah, I feel like as a show progresses you find and remember that Ava’s been there for a while in the first episode. They’re like “Our principal, da dah dah.” It isn’t like our new principal. You know what I mean? So Janine and Gregory are the new additions to the, and that’s why they annoyed her so much because she’s like, you’re messing up the well-oiled machine that I have over here. Everybody knows who I am and what I do, and they deal with it and here you go. And so I don’t think she has someone that’s a foil now because everyone there are veterans and knows how to maneuver around her basically. I think that’s also another reason she’d be happy Janine is gone, is like, “I’m back to how things used to be without this little pipsqueak. Talk about her thoughts on what I’m doing.”
The strike happened last summer so the show went from what I guess would’ve been a 22-episode season or 24-episode season down to 14. But one of the great things about this year is it feels like you broke the third-season curse. If there is even such a thing. This season there are zingers that just come out of nowhere. Were you pleasantly surprised when you started getting this year’s scripts?
Yeah. Even from the first one, how they explained the absence, which they didn’t have to do, was amazing. I would’ve never thought of that. Or maybe I would’ve after a long time, but I wasn’t thinking in that way. I was very much like, “How are they going to get us back into this thing after this strike?” And then also, I feel like this strike was one where not only were people in the industry aware of it, people who aren’t even in the business knew it was happening. So, we almost had to explain it to everyone, like, “Hey, here’s going on.” And I thought they did that in a very clever way. I loved being the first thing you see. Of course, the first thing you see is the house that Ava built. That was amazing for me. I was very honored to be ushering in the new season. And, the reason I’m bringing it up is because someone pointed out to me just a couple of days ago, that you’re the person, the first thing you see on the third season. And so yeah, now that I’ve thought about it, I’m like, “Wow, that’s amazing.” And I had no hand in writing it.
But you’re a comedy writer. You’ve written on other shows. Has Quinta ever come to you and said, “Hey, do you want to come in the room? Do you want to write an episode?” Or are you like, “It’s church and state. I’m here to act. You guys do your thing“?
I have been church and state and it’s been for a separate reason in that. I always say this is the first time I’ve only had one job in decades. [Like] Ava, I’ve always had a side hustle or two jobs. And I was so happy to be like, “Hey, you guys got it” Especially the pilot script. Amazing. That’s why we even wanted to be involved. And in the subsequent episodes and the reaction and feedback we’ve gotten, I’m like, “Y’all don’t need me.” And that’s amazing. I get to just come in and make these words come alive. That’s great. Now that I’ve been here for a minute, I have been like, “If you need me to come in, not that you wouldn’t need me, but if you wanted, I could.” I’m more open to it now. And I am more comfortable pitching on set. Especially if Quinta’s there. I will say, “What do you think about this?” But I never want to disrespect the writer’s room and their process. They have shown proof that they know what they’re doing. I never want to be like, “I have a better thought.” We always try to get it as it is on paper first. And then if people are open to suggestions, we have time, I’ll say, “Hey, what about this?” And then I get to find out what everybody else [thinks and] if they chose what I said. And that’s fun.
This season, there are just a couple of moments that are a little more meta and wink-wink than earlier seasons. In the first episode when Gregory comes to Ava’s office, Ava makes the Jeremy Allen Black joke about “The Bear.” And then there’s even something this past episode where Chris says something about the Nicole Kidman AMC Theaters ad. Have you noticed that?
I have, and I feel like that’s a plus to making a show while it’s airing. We’re shooting as it’s going. So, as things happen, we can throw it in there. And that’s why it seems so current. And I’m very interested to see as the show, fingers crossed, we go syndication, it’s 10 years from now, and then we’re like, [the Jeremy line] and people are going to be like, “What is that?” Or look it up or me, grandma be explaining it to my grandkids and stuff like that. But yeah, I think that’s why that happens and why it seems so meta because we’re still shooting the show as it’s air. The show is very current and that’s cool. Who would’ve thought?
Who would’ve thought? I don’t think it’s been officially picked up for season four, has it?
It has been. Picked up for 22 episodes after the first season, the first episode of season three.
Oh, I missed it. That’s amazing.
That’s why I’m saying it’s so smugly. [Laughs.]
Unlike last year, you actually know your schedule. When we caught up in 2023 no one knewwhen this strike would end. I think you did a comedy tour. Do you have time for that this summer?
Maybe. Who knows this year? Yes. [Pauses.] We know. [Laughs.]
So you do know what you’re going to do during this break? I think you just wrapped.
I am going to rest because we’re going to be back very soon. Before I left the lot, I had my first table read date, so I had to, unfortunately, pass on a couple of movies because it didn’t work out with our shooting schedule. And I was kind of devastated about that. Not devastated, but like, “Oh, that would’ve been nice.” But now that I’ve seen our schedule coming back and how soon we’ll be back, I’m kind of thankful that I get to rest.
That’s good.
And we’ve done it before and I remember you’re like, “Woo, I’m going to use this time to rest. Get back into my schedule, and get in shape.” You almost have to get too in shape so that you devolve as the season goes on. And that’s what I’m going to focus on so that I can bring it for this next season.
This season in particular though, is there one episode, even if we haven’t seen it yet, that stands out that you were most happy with or maybe proud of?
I loved the panel with Tatyana Ali. I love anything where Ava and Gregory are together. I think his disdain for Ava is, it just makes me laugh so much. He hates her so much and not even hates her. He’s just like, “What is this?” He’s like such a serious person as she’s so ridiculous. And then to see them have to be a team was just amazing. And then Tatyana Ali is somebody I watched growing up on “The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.” And to have her come in as my nemesis and it was just a fun episode that took us out of the school. I really liked it. I thought it was so funny. And again, another thing about Ava starting to be O.K. with Janine a bit, she compliments her in her little speech like Janine is sexy on a good day. And I love that whole speech. Another layer of who Ava is is that this nemesis thought that she would hurt her feelings by bringing up [her not having] a husband and kids. You find out that’s not even in her. That wasn’t even a thought. “If anything, a husband and kids will stop me from being Ava. Why would I be envious of that?” So, I really liked how that was written in that scene. But yeah, I really liked that episode and there’s more to come. These are some really fun episodes as we wrap up this season. I haven’t even seen them, but I remember in the moment being like, “This is hilarious.”
At times we’ve had Ava seem to be romantically interested in Gregory’s character. But is that her next natural storyline? Is Ava fighting off a love interest? One she can’t deny?
I don’t know about natural. It might be. I mean, there are other things. I agree with her in that. There are other things besides that. And I also wanted to always push back against the interested in Gregory thing. I truly believe Ava was just having a laugh with him.
Oh, really? O.K.
Again, Janine and Gregory are the new additions to the school. It was almost a hazing because I liked how they dropped it. She didn’t even have to go to HR and learned that it’s bad too, she just got bored with it and she went to Harvard. That’s fabulous. She took that energy and she went to Harvard. She’s like, “That’s boring now you and Janine have fun, you and whatever.” I don’t think she was ever really into it. He’s a broke teacher. Why would she? She was just having a laugh.
Like Ali, the show has had some great guest stars this season. Bradley Cooper showed up sort of out of the blue for a scene. Did you guys know that was happening?
Of course. I mean, did I know? O.K., wait a minute. Let me think. We’re not that in the dark. I feel like I knew it was a guest. Did I know it was Bradley Cooper? Yes. I had to read the lines and Yeah, yeah, yeah. We knew it was him. I did know it was him.
Was that a fun day? Were the kids surprised?
I don’t think the kids knew who he was if I’m being honest, but I feel like that’s every celebrity adults think is famous. Kids are always like “Who?” And then even in the scene, he had to be like, I’m on “Guardians of the Galaxy.” And they’re, but yeah, by sight they’re like, “I don’t know who this guy is. “And so I think that made it even funnier because in the show they didn’t know either. He’s just like, “I saw this guy and people were acting like famous. So I brought him, I don’t know who this guy is.” But one thing I do like about the guest stars this season, which was a great way to handle a strike, if you think about it, is that Quinta keeps it very Philly-based. And then the parts that they’re brought into play are very true to nobody’s like, “Oh, Keegan-Michael Key shouldn’t be a superintendent.” Or “Cree Summers would never be a librarian”. They’re very well cast.
I wanted to go back to one thing you said about Ava going to Harvard. Are you continually pleasantly surprised that Ava keeps taking her job more and more seriously as the seasons go on?
Yes, but I would also push back against this in that I feel like she always did. Yes, she has some departures, but I feel like it’s not new behavior, it’s new newly revealed behavior. For example, in season two, you see that she always keeps uniforms in her desk drawer for the kids who are outgrowing them, and who can’t afford them. That’s not a new thing. She has that. She’s always done that. He knew to come to Ava to ask for it. She’s also had a rapport with that shows that the kids like her. In the detention episode, you see that her office is a place to come to unwind and reset, not for punishment. Even though Gregory didn’t agree with that tactic. That’s how she deals with the students. I feel like the students like Ava more than anybody else. I always say she is a product of that environment. I envision her also going to maybe even that same school or a school just like it. She knows what it’s like to be in that school and have things not work out. And rather than being incompetent, she hustles around it. She knows she has to do things because when you do it the right way, as Janine is finding out, it doesn’t work out.
She knows the world that she’s in. She knows the pros and the cons.
She’s very savvy. She’s very wise. She’s often the smartest person in the room.
She is. My last question for you is, I don’t know if you remember exactly what happens in the last four episodes, but if you could tease anything for the end of the season, what would you tease?
Maybe something that a lot of people want might happen. Maybe people come back or go even further away. Maybe more guest stars. And just like most sitcoms, the season finale is a cliffhanger.
“Abbott Elementary” airs on ABC on Wednesdays at 9 PM and is available the next day on Hulu.